Moveset Design Document: Fujiwara no Mokou

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Moveset Design Document: Fujiwara no Mokou

Post by CyberDagger on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:39 pm

Overview


Mokou is a heavyweight character, with a strong focus on melee and many attacks with invincibility frames. She’s intended to fight up close, but since she lacks the speed to pursue her opponents, she has to instead wait for the opponent to make a mistake, and then punish that mistake with high damage attacks. A high-risk, high reward character. Mokou wouldn’t have it any other way, aware of her nigh invulnerability as she is.

Power: A
Speed: D
Jump: C
Defense: B

Walk Speed: Medium

Run Speed: Slow

Jump Height: Medium

Falling Speed: Fast

Knockback Resistance: High

Attack Damage: High

Attack Speed: Slow

Unique Gimmick: Collecting essence/power blocks recovers some of Mokou’s damage, as well as building up towards the availability of the Last Word, as is the case with the other characters. (Disregard if essence system is not implemented.)

Pros:

  • Very high damage attacks.
  • Super armor frames allow Mokou to simply plow through the opponent’s attacks, punishing reckless offense.
  • Regeneration mechanic tied to damage dealt encourages and rewards aggressive play, and reduces the punishment for taking risks and guessing wrong, as long as the player eventually succeeds.



Cons:

  • Long recovery frames on some attacks make them easy to punish if they whiff.
  • Low combo potential, has to rely on powerful single strikes instead.
  • Slow speed and lack of ranged options make Mokou easy to zone out.


Moveset


Normal Attacks


Neutral Attack: Mokou does a hook punch, followed by an uppercut, then a front kick. The front kick has high knockback for a neutral attack. Timing similar to Ike’s.

Dash Attack: A headbutt. Long hitstun, but long recovery as well.

Tilt Attacks:

  • Forward: A roundhouse kick. Can be slightly aimed.
  • Down: Leg sweep.
  • Up: Axe kick. Slow startup.


Aerial Attacks:

  • Neutral: Simple aerial front kick.
  • Forward: Butterfly kick. (2 hits, one with each leg. First hit has negligible knockback, second high.)
  • Back: Flying back kick.
  • Down: Vertical, somewhat angled stomp. Long recovery. (See Sonic, ZSS, Sheik.)
  • Up: Backflip with a kick sweeping the top arc. (Basically the Flash Kick motion.)


Grappling


Grab: Simple one-handed short range grab. Grappled character is held by the collar with the hand that was used to grab.

Pummel: Hook punch to the gut with the free hand.

Throws:

  • Front: Mokou kicks the opponent away.
  • Back: Mokou moves the opponent to the back and kicks her away with a back kick.
  • Down: Mokou slams the opponent down on the floor and ignites her hand. Very little knockback.
  • Up: Mokou throws the opponent up and does a backflip kick.


Smash Attacks


Front: Front kick, more forceful than the one at the end of the end of the neutral combo. Think “Sparta Kick”.

Down: Mokou launches a fireball diagonally down. (Like ZSS’s, but without the long stun and more knockback.)

Up: Mokou holds her arms straight up and ignites her hands. The fire does up to 4 light hits and holds the opponent in place. Mokou then swiftly moves her arms apart, hands still aflame, in a movement reminiscent of a scissor opening its blades, launching the opponent up.

Special Moves


Neutral: Mokou does a long charging action, then delivers a devastating punch, her arm ablaze. She’s wide open during the charge and for a while after the punch, so the attack is easily punishable, but Mokou has super armor during the punch itself. High damage, high knockback.

Yes, it’s the Falcon Punch. Someone said Mokou should have the Falcon Punch. Here it is. It does kinda suit her. I’m willing to tweak it so it’s not exactly the same, though, and maybe make it more useful. The most telegraphed attack of SSB may be a meme, but it’s easy to cancel.

Forward: Mokou dashes forward at very high speed, fire behind her as if propelling her. After she reaches her opponent, she delivers a devastating haymaker. Knocks down on the ground, and spikes if it connects in the air. Mokou is vulnerable in the short moment before she begins dashing, but is invulnerable to all projectiles during the dash itself.

This is Mokou’s best approach option, especially against projectile spammers. Timed right, this will make Mokou go through the attack, punish it, and put her in an advantageous position. Somewhat telegraphed, so it’s best to use it sparingly, when it counts.

Down: Mokou strikes a pose, charging her attack for as long as you hold the button. (Maybe with fire in her hands?) When you release the button, she generates an explosion of flames around her, with damage proportional to the time spent charging. When fully charged, the damage is very high, but some is dealt to Mokou as well. Mokou has super armor during the explosion.

It’s pretty much Ike’s neutral B with a better area of effect.

Up: Mokou envelops herself in flame and rises. The attack deals multiple hits, but doesn’t have much knockback. While Mokou isn’t invulnerable during this move, the aura of flames around her makes it very hard to land a melee strike. Holding a side can make Mokou move a bit diagonally in that direction, but very little.

Mokou’s recovery. Not very impressive in terms of altitude gained or horizontal mobility. Will have to be used if the stage’s edge is above Mokou’s position, but otherwise there are many instances where the side special is a better recovery option.

Last Word


Possessed by Phoenix: Mokou strikes a pose, bursts into flames, then appears to burn herself down to nothing. The phoenix symbol appears where she was, controllable by the player.



The symbol is not affected by gravity, the player simply inputs a direction to move it there. The player should then aim to overlap the symbol with an opponent. Once an opponent is inside, pressing an attack button will send projectiles, one from each side, in the direction of that opponent. (Important to decide what happens if more than one opponent is inside the targeting area.) The normal attack and special attack buttons shoot different types of projectiles, each with its own cooldown time. Normal attack button shoots a burst of three small, fast-moving projectiles, while the special attack button shoots a large, slow-moving projectile.

At the end of the Last Word's duration, A flame appears in the center as the phoenix symbol vanishes, and Mokou reappears as the flames dissipate.


Last edited by CyberDagger on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Moveset Design Document: Fujiwara no Mokou

Post by CyberDagger on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:41 pm

My first character writeup. Mokou may be still just a "maybe", but I felt inspired. Still needs some detail, of course, but I'm waiting for engine progress. I guess I can do some key pose sketches eventually.

Feel free to dissect.
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Re: Moveset Design Document: Fujiwara no Mokou

Post by Daniel Y on Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:04 am

Someone was quite inspired by Captain Falcon I see Razz
The way you've described our favorite phoenix girl reminds me a lot of Ganondorf (slow, powerful, heavy) so I may reference Ganondorf a lot when I write this.

Normals
While I like her jab combo, I think a very fast straight punch might be a better opener for her—a good range "get off me" move like ganondorf's jab. Most heavy characters need a safe-to-whiff get-off-me move (like Bowser's up b or ganon's jab) so unless she can act out of her up-b or has some other ~5 frame move, this should be the one.

I'm also a bit confused by the nair, fair and bair descriptions. My old kung fu training says the bair would be like DK's and the fair...were you thinking of Captain Falcon's nair? And the nair be a sex kick? These few aerials are the chance to give her safer, faster long range moves, if you believe she should have any.

Grabs
OMG THE DOWN THROW IS SO BADASS WHY DID NO ONE EVER THINK TO GIVE FALCON THAT AAAAHHHH

...they look badass.

Smashes
The down smash is a bit strange at the moment, as the forward smash does basically the same thing (not that we have to make every move useful). Perhaps if it...spiked or something Very Happy

Also, were you thinking of the usmash being like Mega Man's (no range) or Greninja's (long range but weaker)? It could make a pretty big difference, especially as up smashes can be done out of a dash.

Specials
The down special could have serious edgeguarding potential, and the up special is a good "power character" move. Falcon Punch is Falcon Punch Very Happy

Last Word
This looks really strong, like Snake's final smash.

Overall, I like your ideas, but I'm a bit worried about how a slow character with few projectiles will function in a game full of projectile spammers. Ganondorf has a lot of trouble dealing with projectiles in general, and Mokou looks like she'd have just as much trouble, if not more in a Touhou environment. Also, in Sm4sh, Ganondorf is a character that relies on punishing unsafe moves and getting more out of each punish than his opponent (also like Falcon in Melee). However, if the opponent plays safe, Sm4sh Ganondorf has no way to actually accomplish anything (look up Omega Tyrant vs Boss on Youtube...Boss plays safe and OT's Ganon can't touch him). I don't know which way we're going with the engine, but I'm worried about a slow character's performance.

TL;DR
Feels powerful and badass
Trouble with projectiles (and getting hits off in general)
Describe nair, fair, bair more


P. S. I didn't take into consideration the healing, perhaps if it's strong enough it can force a campy character to engage.

P. P. S. Many heavy characters have command grabs, maybe she could have one?

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Re: Moveset Design Document: Fujiwara no Mokou

Post by CyberDagger on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:53 am

Daniel Y wrote:Someone was quite inspired by Captain Falcon I see Razz
That and a bit of Ike too. Though considering that someone compared Mokou to Little Mac, I am reassured that this isn't too derivative.

The way you've described our favorite phoenix girl reminds me a lot of Ganondorf (slow, powerful, heavy) so I may reference Ganondorf a lot when I write this.
Quite, yes, though not quite on Ganondorf's extreme. I envisioned her moving sorta like an Ike without the massive sword.

While I like her jab combo, I think a very fast straight punch might be a better opener for her—a good range "get off me" move like ganondorf's jab. Most heavy characters need a safe-to-whiff get-off-me move (like Bowser's up b or ganon's jab) so unless she can act out of her up-b or has some other ~5 frame move, this should be the one.
Yes, you are right. Might as well put the jab there, I guess.

I'm also a bit confused by the nair, fair and bair descriptions. My old kung fu training says the bair would be like DK's and the fair...were you thinking of Captain Falcon's nair? And the nair be a sex kick? These few aerials are the chance to give her safer, faster long range moves, if you believe she should have any.
Yes, yes, and yes. And yes, though I intended Mokou to be a high risk character, she has to have some safe moves, so I guess that can work out.

Also, I've been thinking of maybe replacing her fair with a fiery straight punch with a sweetspot. This may be seen as bringing her even closer to Captain Falcon, what with the Knee of Justice and all, but I actually intended it as a reference to Sol Badguy's Sidewinder. The nair one would either stay the sex kick, or be replaced with the old fair. What do you think of this?

OMG THE DOWN THROW IS SO BADASS WHY DID NO ONE EVER THINK TO GIVE FALCON THAT AAAAHHHH

...they look badass.
Why thank you. That's exactly what I was aiming for. I figured that since Mokou's usual "sparring partner" is someone she doesn't have to worry about using lethal force against (In fact, she makes sure to use it.), her moveset would feature a certain brutality not present in other characters' movesets. The throws would be a good place to showcase it. And what's more brutal than a burning chokeslam?

The down smash is a bit strange at the moment, as the forward smash does basically the same thing (not that we have to make every move useful). Perhaps if it...spiked or something Very Happy
You're right. And I guess it spiking makes some sense, as well as some differences in the timing.

Also, were you thinking of the usmash being like Mega Man's (no range) or Greninja's (long range but weaker)? It could make a pretty big difference, especially as up smashes can be done out of a dash.
Considering that I intend it to do more than two hits and I don't see the flames extending much from her fists, closer to Mega Man, though she'd finish it with the same motion as Greninja. Mokou would be made quite a bit taller than Mega Man, though, and with longer arms, so I imagine that while it would have some range problems, they wouldn't be as severe.

The down special could have serious edgeguarding potential, and the up special is a good "power character" move. Falcon Punch is Falcon Punch Very Happy
Yeah, I can see that. A well timed down special could ruin a recovery. But do you have anything to say about the side special, considering it's her best way to go through heavy projectile pressure?

This looks really strong, like Snake's final smash.
Good to know. Possessed by Phoenix is one of Mokou's most famous spell cards, and flashy enough to warrant its spot here. Good to know you think I'm doing it justice.

Overall, I like your ideas, but I'm a bit worried about how a slow character with few projectiles will function in a game full of projectile spammers. Ganondorf has a lot of trouble dealing with projectiles in general, and Mokou looks like she'd have just as much trouble, if not more in a Touhou environment.
Yeah, which is why if you saw what I said about it on the chats when this was being discussed, you saw me saying that I don't want to turn the slider up towards danmaku too much. I want an environment where even slow close range characters can thrive. I did give Mokou a fast, projectile-immune charge, but even then I still have some doubts.

Also, in Sm4sh, Ganondorf is a character that relies on punishing unsafe moves and getting more out of each punish than his opponent (also like Falcon in Melee).
And that is what I had in mind for Mokou's play style, one focused on punishing unsafe moves. I can certainly see why you began by comparing her to Ganondorf.

However, if the opponent plays safe, Sm4sh Ganondorf has no way to actually accomplish anything (look up Omega Tyrant vs Boss on Youtube...Boss plays safe and OT's Ganon can't touch him). I don't know which way we're going with the engine, but I'm worried about a slow character's performance.
I just looked that match up, and I can see what you're saying. That third round was complete humiliation for Ganondorf.

I'm a bit worried about Mokou's performance, but I'd like to have the engine working in a way that allows all styles of characters to be played. I want it to go in a way that a well played slow character can succeed.

Let me ask you something here. How would you "fix" Sm4sh Ganondorf? I think maybe your answer to this can offer some insight into how to make Mokou a competent character. This game is going to have heavyweights anyway, so we will have to figure out how to make them work.

TL;DR
Feels powerful and badass
Trouble with projectiles (and getting hits off in general)
Describe nair, fair, bair more
First point, that is precisely the feel I was going for, so nice. Second, I don't mind having a character that has trouble dealing with projectiles, as long as the game doesn't focus so much on them that this turns into a universal disadvantage. Third, already did it above, your guesses were right.

P. S. I didn't take into consideration the healing, perhaps if it's strong enough it can force a campy character to engage.
Yes, the healing can serve as an anti-turtling maneuver, but keep in mind that it forces Mokou to engage as well, as it's tied to the amount of heavy hits she can land.

P. P. S. Many heavy characters have command grabs, maybe she could have one?
I thought of it, but Mokou strikes me as more of a striker than a grappler. Perhaps someone like Yuugi is better suited for it.
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Re: Moveset Design Document: Fujiwara no Mokou

Post by Daniel Y on Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:28 pm

I like the new ideas for fair and nair (were you imagining the nair to be like Falcon's?) a lot, at risk of her looking too much like a Falcon clone. Perhaps if her down smash spikes or something, there would be no need for her to also have Falcon's up tilt? I'm more worried about us getting attacked for creating a character whose moves look a lot like a regular Smash character than anything.

I like the upsmash, it could have a cool animation. The side-b is...like Falcon and Little Mac's side-b. A very good move thematically, as it gives you a large reward for making a good read. Did you imagine it being a kill move or a combo move? (Either works, as long as she has a strong enough combo game)

As for Smash 4 Ganondorf...I'm really not sure. I'm not a very good player, but if anything, I'd say the issue is that all his movements are too predictable. He can't stomp-techchase like in Melee, and can't use wavelands or anything to keep his foes guessing. If Ganondorf could either a. force his foes to approach him, (through a projectile or something) or b. apply constant pressure (through...speed...I guess...) he could get his opponents to make mistakes, and obliterate them.

As for Mokou, she might actually be helped out by a danmaku-heavy environment, as it would promote the inclusion of airdashes, which would give her very good movement mixups, and possibly the ability to tech chase. (dair could be cancelable with an airdash or something?) Alternatively, giving her passive regen (instead of giving her healing when she approaches) would force the enemy to try to attack her, allowing her to potentially punish a bad approach. Also, I wanted to give her a command grab so that she has a mix-up of her own—you can't just shield against her and win.

Like you, I don't want the game to have too much danmaku, though that's more because I don't like projectile-spammy characters in Smash Bros in general. To be viable at higher levels of play, she needs some way to either mix up her movement or apply pressure, preferably both.

P. S. Being able to act out of up-b would help too...give her more mobility.

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